Latinx Voices Unveiled

0:00:00
This is Clay T. White, director of UNLV's Oral History Research Center. Support for the Latinx Voices Unveiled series is provided by the National Endowment for the Humanities, MGM Resorts International, the Commission for the Las Vegas Centennial, Mark and Mary Ann Haley, Envy Energy, and the Culinary Workers Union Local 226.

0:00:22
UNLV's Oral History Research Center presents Latinx Voices Unveiled series. Today's episode is brought to you by the Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada Oral History Project, a UNLV libraries initiative to record the marginalized voices of the Latinx community. This series is produced by the UNLV Rebel Media Group.

0:00:44
Hello, everyone. I welcome you all back to the show. This is episode four of our podcast and today's topic is art, where we will be talking about some of the creative efforts that were born and cultivated here in Las Vegas. My name is Elsa Lopez and I am joined today with...

0:01:05
Monser Nandez.

0:01:06
And Lauren Espana Las Benitas.

0:01:08
Welcome guys. So frequently on this show, we talk about this idea of like demystifying the reputation of Las Vegas because, well, the three of us are residents here and we know that the casino industry is a facet of this much bigger picture. And because we live here, we know that Vegas is home to a flourishing art scene. And actually later on in this episode, we will be hearing from, well, it's her name is poet Miss A.V. who actually describes our city as being on the cusp of an artistic renaissance in her words. So before we get started with everything else I wanted to hear from the two of you you know since we're all consumers of the arts to some extent if you guys could describe the current Las Vegas art scene in just a couple of words. I think the Las Vegas art scene is growing. I feel like it's in its infancy, like it's growing and now that we have like a much bigger population it's becoming more of like a space rather than a concept and we just need to cultivate it and let it grow and mature into what I'm sure would be like Miss A.V. said, this like artistic renaissance where we're gonna be the it place

0:02:24
you know in the future, so

0:02:28
I grew up in Las Vegas and and I remember when I was a kid there really wasn't much art We didn't have like museums to go to like if you go to like LA There's a LA Museum of Art or like Philly has the Philadelphia Museum You know these big like museums where you have these classical pieces of art You go I didn't have that growing up and I remember the only times you could really see art, funny enough, is if you went to the casinos. You know, sometimes my parents would take me to the casinos and funny enough, my first introduction to like, Roman statues or Roman architect is Caesar's Palace. Because that's where my dad worked, and that's the casino he was most familiar with, so he would take us to go just to walk around or whatever, walk the shop, the forum shops at Caesar's Palace. And that's when I was like, when I seen these huge Roman statues and Roman art. And of course they're all replicas, but that was my introduction to it. So the casinos for a while were like the epicenter for art, if you want to go, right? And it's still, truth be told. Yeah, they have the big name art galleries that, you know. Yeah, they have like all these big-name galleries like you like you mentioned and they have expensive art

0:03:42
But at the same time like locals don't really go to the strip, right? We're not tourists in our own city

0:03:47
I always tell people that

0:03:49
Because I spent a few years working on the strip Wayne tables the only time I come down to the strip is either if I have family in town and they want to do like the Vegas Thing or I have to come down here for work. But now as I get older, and now that we're seeing more art, you know, there's more street art. You can, not just like tagging, but actual street art. I grew up on Eastern and Stewart. And so on that corner, there's this mural of Pedra Infante. And it's a beautiful mural. And it's been there as long as I can remember. I even used to walk past it when I would go to school and home. And you would think that like being in the area that it is on the east side, it would at some point get tagged up. It's never been tagged up, ever. No one's ever touched it.

0:04:37
Same like on Eastern and Bonanza, there's a Cárdenas and on the side there's a La Virgen de Guadalupe mural.

0:04:44
Like it's a giant, you know, 20 by 20 mural kind of thing.

0:04:48
And it's never been touched. And so I think now there's this respect, especially, so I think there's a respect to Latino art in our neighborhood that we're starting to like, hey, this is celebrating our culture, let's respect this. But I think it's appreciation. And then I think, just in general, there's a, like, the art scene is growing. I remember first Friday when I was in high school, people would be like, hey, let's go first Friday. But I actually, I didn't even know it was an art festival, because no one really talked about that aspect of it at the time and in the crowd I was with kind of used it as an excuse to go partying and it just wasn't my thing

0:05:21
So I'm not that at all and actually we're gonna talk a lot about first Friday, right?

0:05:25
I'm sick

0:05:25
So I'm glad to know that I mean despite where we're coming from you guys are from a different part of town We can acknowledge that it's not for lack of appreciation that we don't have art around our community does appreciate art So it's just not accessible.

0:05:40
Yeah. And it's becoming more accessible now. Now First Friday is definitely this art thing where people can go to downtown. I grew up a few blocks away from downtown. It's exploded. Life is Beautiful had a lot to do with that. So I think, yes, we are going to this Renaissance period or we're getting to it but once it is very right we're in this infancy. So I think we're seeing the city kind of ball rolling and balancing out between this fancy fancy art that's only accessible to if you have millions of dollars and the street art that anyone can go and buy.

0:06:17
These are all great ideas guys and I want us to keep that energy because we're going to talk about accessibility in just a sec. But let's jump into the first artist we will be hearing from today. All of these artists that we will be talking about reside in our beautiful city. But let's move on to the first theme, which is art as a means to symbolize identity. And we're going to begin with hearing a clip from local artist Justin Favela, also known as Fabi Fab from his podcast, Latinas Who Lunch and the Art People's podcast. He is a piñata artist whose pieces are internationally recognized. And in this first clip, he is talking about art and his Latinidad.

0:06:57
Yeah. It was in college. I was going to make a piece about my identity. And piñata paper was like the making something a piñata, I think, was like a shortcut to symbolize my Latinidad. So I started making piñatas as objects in the beginning, and I quickly got bored with that. So then I switched to thinking of the piñata as a medium and not as an object. So then that kind of freed me to do paintings. And then that naturally transferred to doing installation work.

0:07:45
There's a second clip I want us to hear where he expands on this further, but he also explains some of the inspiration behind his newest installation titled Sorry for the Mess.

0:07:56
But a lot of it is also very, I like to work intuitively too, like with this show at the Barrack right now, for example, like the wet floor signs, that was an idea I got like a month before the show opened, just from walking around casinos and seeing wet floor signs and what that meant or what that symbolized to me. Like, oh wow, the visibility of maintenance, this is really the only time you see that in a casino is with the wet floor sign Because they even try to hide their employees by having them wear very neutral uniforms and things, you know, so a big yellow sign Means so much more than people think right so to me seeing a wet floor sign. It's like oh, that's like Maybe my tia's around you know what I mean? Which yeah, and the casinos thinking we don't want to get sued. That's all they're thinking by putting that out. And the Muppet pile, for example, that is a piece that I've had in my head for years. I want to make that piece. And this was just the opportunity to do that, because it tied in all these ideas of me watching TV while my mom cleaned people's houses, or or the party at the Harrah's where I met Big Bird, and then my tia, you know, Ramiro did a painting of my tia who was there for that experience with me, so it all kind of like tied in together.

0:09:24
So it just depends. As someone who sat in on that interview, I can see how his medium, the piñata paper, is meant to represent his heritage. And in the exhibit, which is featured here in our university's barrack museum, he also pays homage to his childhood as a Vegas native. So firstly, I'm assuming you both have been to the museum, you guys have seen his newest piece.

0:09:48
I think we both went the day he opened it. Yes, we did the walkthrough with him, which was...

0:09:54
Tell us about your thoughts. So like, at some point he had me crying because I'm like, oh my god, your experience has been like my experience. But to see it like in an art like gallery was like crazy because you know you go as a little kid to all these like artistic and cultural spots but there's no place for our culture right? Like it's all like you know mainstream American culture and stuff like that and so like to see it displayed in such a magnitude where you know it's in the museum like that was crazy and when he talked about that, he talked about his personal experience and the inspiration for everything that he did and how he used things that were, I guess, disposable things that he created into art. That was incredible. And at some point, I was crying. I'm like, he gets it. He really does. And he's putting our culture and and our experience, most importantly, out there and making it art. And that was just overwhelming for me. It was great. That was the first time that I've ever been to a museum that it wasn't folk art. You know how they classify our art as folk art? Because how can it be classical art or mainstream art? That was the first time where it wasn't classified folk art, and it was modern contemporary art.

0:11:14
I mean, to me, that art installation hit home hard. And the reason being for that is growing up, my parents worked in the casinos. My dad, for the last 25 years, has worked inside Caesar's Palace as a line cook, and my mom for about the last 15 years has been working as a line cook at Planet Hollywood. And then myself, I actually spent five years weighing tables as I was doing my undergrad. So I started as a busboy and worked myself to waiting until I graduated college. So I am very, right, so it's hard to meet a Latino in this town that isn't either in construction or working on the strip as a custodian or as a waiter or as a cook or whatever. But I spent time in that environment. I have friends, dear friends that I made in those five years, who worked in the, who still work in the industry, who, that industry helps the Latino, I say helps with like an asterisk on it, right? Because they very much do exploit us, very much exploit our labor, but it has helped a lot in the community, buy their homes, buy their cars, provide for their family. It's important. It's important, yeah.

0:12:28
Regardless.

0:12:29
And so, you know, going there and like watching this installation of like, I mean, that was my family, that was my friends, that was me, like weighing tables, cleaning. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I had to clean up, especially when I was busting tables, how many times I had to clean up after a tourist after they knocked over their beer and and be Apologetic about oh my god, and they're like, oh don't worry about it. We got it, right? And in Justin hits it right on the nail the casino doesn't want you to be seen you're there to serve The guests and that's it. They don't want your opinion They don't want you to like the only time they care about your opinion And this is goes for the casino and the tourist is when they ask you where can I get the latest deal or what's the thing to do in town. That's the one time they want to see you. And that's if you're a server, right? If you're a custodian, and there's almost this hierarchy in casinos of like who tourists want to talk to. Custodians and people who put up the wet floor signs are right at the bottom.

0:13:35
Yeah. into the whole thing were like, the only time I ever saw someone that looks like me or that talks the same language as me in a casino was like the custodians, the maids, the ones that were cleaning the room after the people that were there.

0:13:51
Right, because the pit bosses, the party hosts, for the most part, tend to be American, or Anglo, I should say. So just to go walk into this museum, and that was just like, man, these are my friends. These are my, like, it was, it just hit home. And that was one of the, it made me cry. It just made me cry.

0:14:10
I mean, it's, as he said in that clip, he thinks of his mother, or he thinks of his aunt. And that was what was difficult for me to hear because I worry as well, as you've mentioned, Lawrence, about the exploitation that goes on and the stuff that we don't hear about, perhaps because the casino is hiding it, perhaps also because our parents don't want to tell us. And then we are in this unique opportunity where because of our job, we get to hear about these stories. So when we do some of our interviews, because we want all of the Latinx community, we will listen to the stories of the housekeepers and of porters and people who work in the casino industry. And I think that some of the most rewarding work that we do, and it's good to know that Justin also, to him it is important that we highlight marginalized voices. And he shares a lot of our values. So to have him create something like that, to know that he is coming from a space where a lot of us have lived, it's, yeah, as you'd mentioned, very powerful. So yeah, same thing, I resonated with the exhibit a lot. I felt like the exhibit symbolizes a lot of the feelings that we feel as like first generation immigrants, you know, first generation to go to college, knowing that our parents are working so hard to help us move forwards, to know their story as well, it's just paramount to understanding one another.

0:15:37
Yeah, and I feel like he he really captures like our parents experience. Like if anything, when you go down to the barrack and you see this installation, you're seeing your parents as first generation kids like this is what our parents do. Like when we think about like our parents generation, like you know, for the most part, there are the porters there. You know the cleanup crew, that kind of stuff. And so it was really nice to see that aspect be highlighted in such a positive way because

0:16:06
like honest work and I'm tired of certain people trampling on it or thinking lesser.

0:16:11
Yeah, exactly. Like, they've always been at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to like positions and stuff like that. And there are jobs that nobody else wants, right? And here goes the Latinx community and does it with pride because like Lauren says it puts food on the table it you know it helps kids get through college it helps families provide for you know the children and so I feel like his installation his artwork his stance the reason behind everything that he

0:16:41
does is very much like our story. It's different because as you mentioned it's not it's not folk art but it's also not a Mexican art exhibit. It's a different facet of Latinx life. So not, you know, here are some pieces from Mexico or Guatemala or stuff that you would assume would be in a Latinx quote-unquote exhibit, or maybe this is just me thinking that that's what others would assume, but, no, this is very much a different perspective on our lives. It's definitely representative of our culture, not necessarily in the sense that this is a museum with Mexican pieces or Guatemalan pieces. It is a Latinx experience, but I love his take on it. And Justin is one of the many successful people who were raised here in our community. And at the moment, his work is featured in loads of places, including the new East Las Vegas Library. He was featured in a series there as well called 28th Street Images Past and Present. And next we will be hearing from the creator of the series, photographer and UNLV professor, Checo Salgado. Here he talks about his series in the East Las Vegas Library and as well as what that library in general

0:17:55
means to the community. What I hope what happens is that other people from the outlying communities come in and get involved there. So these kids are still, you know, it's still a bad neighborhood. And they need hope. So I think by these people coming in and donating their services, whether it's teaching a class or talking or working, doing a workshop, that they're benefiting these kids, because these, the prior kids didn't have that opportunity, you have to kind of go and find it somewhere, you know, and a lot of them ended up on the streets. Some of these kids are these people that are my older photos are on the streets homeless in that same block. They still live there, but now they're homeless. You know, and I don't want to see that for these kids. And we've never had that opportunity on this side of town, so I really want it to be successful. And that's why, that was my idea for the show, because my friend Darren is a curator for all the galleries in town, for the library. And I go, hey, I see that they're building a library on 28th Street. I go, who's going to be the first show? He goes, oh, I don't have anybody yet. You want to do something? I go, yeah. So my idea was to go back and find these people that grew up there and bring them back to that community so that they know, hey, this is still your community. You grew up here. Be a part of this library. So that was the idea, taking pictures of them in front of their old houses or if they were still there, but also getting their old photos so they felt like, yeah, we did grow up here, we did have a community. We lived in government homes, we were poor, but we all hung out together. They actually had better community than our side of town, you know, which was a few blocks away. Like they actually, as my friend Sadafin says, he goes, we had to play with each other because our backyards were the same, everybody's backyard, so we all got to hang out with each other. But that's what I've been pushing. I was like, you guys need to come back and help this library prosper.

0:19:43
Checo is an amazing person. He's photographed Nevada at all angles. He's photographed wildlife, the cityscape, and the people here. So anyone who wants to get a better understanding for Nevada could really take from his perspective and looking at his photos. You guys have been to the library and you've probably seen his series there. So I want to get not only your thoughts on that, but also just what that library means.

0:20:10
So this interview is really special for me for two reasons. First, it talks about the neighborhood I grew up in. I grew up in Lease, Las Vegas. I grew up alongside it. And second, Checo is actually the first Latino instructor I had at UNLV. A very first person that I encountered that looked like me. And I remember when I first walked into his classroom, I was like, oh shoot, there's a Latino teaching this class? And I paid attention so much more and I got into photography and then I got, I started talking to Checo and got to know him a little bit more and I find out he grows up in the same neighborhood I did. We went to the same middle school. So that was like, yo, someone who grew up on the East Side, went to school on 28th Street, made it. And that just inspired me so much. Coming back to this interview, I mean, so like Checo said in the clip, the East Side, depending who you talk to, doesn't have the best reputation in town, right? It's always had these issues. This side of town has always had these issues and nothing gets fixed. Generation, generation is coming in and unfortunately the neighborhood stays the same. And so, you know, like I said, East Side has this reputation, but then 28th Street has its own reputation. That's the place where you don't want to go at night. So just to give you an idea, people on the east side have this connotation of 28th Street. But then, now with the library being in there, so Chekho, I think, mentions that there used to be projects on that section where the library sits. And I actually used to cut through those projects to get home from school. And so this library means a lot to me and and Chaco's project is amazing because he went out and he's like these people used to live here and now they're doing these amazing things and of course not everyone's a winner. You know unfortunately some of us don't escape the perils of the hood. You know as much as we try to sometimes we just we can't. But regardless of that, the next generation, especially on the East side, needs to see that representation, needs to see that people came from the same body as they did and went on and did great things. My hope is that my generation and maybe a couple ones after me are the last ones that have to go out and find opportunities out on their own. I'm hoping generations after me will have this library.

0:22:50
We help each other out and that's amazing that, as he mentioned, it's the people who grew up there that will give back to their community.

0:22:57
Yeah, and we're starting to see it now too. Like, Justin Favella was featured in that installation and his portrait is there at the library. And so like, the whole thing that Checo said, like come back and give to community, Justin's already doing that. Olivia Diaz is another one that's featured and she's right now City Councilwoman for that district for East Las Vegas And so these people that came out of 28th Street are actually giving back to their community And so it's very important for us not only to see representation in You know people that made it out but also that those people come back and you know Pay some respects and the way they like pay their like pay their dues back to like the community that helped them for so long, you know, and that library where it's at and just how it was catered to the Latino community is very much a symbol of hope. Like in this like forgotten neighborhood that no one wants to go through, in this forgotten neighborhood where there's lack of resources, you have the most high tech library in the entire city. It really was catered for this community and the entire library is bilingual so like all the signs are bilingual and so like it's not only just a library you know it's a resource and it's a resource that's bilingual that actually is accessible to the community that lives in it. Yeah it truly shows

0:24:20
that the people who are most invested in this library are invested for that same feeling of this is where I'm from. And yeah, like Checo said, that's why community members need to be forefronting this stuff, because they're the ones who know what their community needs. So let's talk about the epicenter, at least in the opinion of many, the epicenter of the artistic scene, the Las Vegas Arts District, which is located just south of downtown Las Vegas. And here you can find local art, and you might even be lucky enough to chat with some of the artists themselves. And we have, we host a monthly event down there which is called First Friday. And to summarize it for those who don't know, it's kind of a party block-esque situation with food, live entertainment, you can buy local art and it's just got that downtown scene. So while the event has undergone lots of change over the years, it still holds a nice place in our community as it attempts to make art more accessible to the general public. And we've been talking about that a little bit. That accessibility is what we're going to be hearing about next from local artist Eric Cavillo, who is known for his Dia de los Muertos paintings.

0:25:32
I did a first Friday and it was just, it was successful. I, you know, I love it. I love doing the, setting up a booth outdoors, it's just, it's nicer. I mean, I do like having a spot in a gallery, but being outside it's more, it feels like it's more for the people. You get, people get excited, it's like, oh I can afford this, it's a ten or twenty dollar piece and they don't feel intimidated when they see, you know, they go into the gallery and see it, you know, the piece is going for thousands of dollars. And I still have the nice, the elegant pieces, but you know, I also have, I have something for everybody. And so, I like being outside because it's just, it feels, it feels like it brings out the, the more, the more everyday crowd and not just the big spenders. Because it's, I know what it's like to, you know, be tight on money and to see something that you like and not be able to have it. It's not that I think people should be entitled to everything they want, but it's just not difficult for me to make something to share the art with somebody. And if I can inspire them or if they can get something from my painting, something personal from it, it makes me feel good that I was able to share something with them. Like if they're influenced by it or if they feel the piece, I think that's more important than the money. That's what I want more than anything is to feel a connection between people. I think that's important.

0:27:05
Both of you have told me that you've purchased some of his pieces. Do you guys want to describe what his style is like?

0:27:14
So I own a piece where it's a skull and kind of your, if you think of the Mexican Revolution, if you think of Pancho Villa and think of Zapata and their attire that they're usually in, the piece I own is a skull figure in that kind of attire, Mexican revolutionary attire. I encountered Eric was actually at Dia de los Muertos, Day of the Dead Festival and Springs Preserve. And actually in the interview later on, I found out, because I was sitting on the interview, that was actually his first show ever. The first time I encountered him, was his first time he ever decided to go out and sell pieces. So that was really cool. And that's where I bought that piece. And so to me, it's just, I've always loved the skull imagery, especially the sugar skulls. It's exploded in popularity since Coco. I love the aesthetic of it, I love the skulls, and it's this mixture of death and life and things that we celebrate.

0:28:21
Yogeeta People who don't understand Dia de los Muertos, or people who are outside of our culture may think of, you know, the skulls and all of this is having a sense of morbidity to it, like being morbid. So I love that in this interview, he talks a lot about where he's coming from with these pieces. And if you've seen them, Monty, maybe you'll describe some too. Yeah, so the one that I have is a skeleton, and it has like flowers coming out, like, growing out like wings, like the rib cage right and the rib cage one yeah and he like there's flowers in the rib cage and it's kind of symbolizing life in a new way and it's like a beautiful art piece you guys should all check him out he's available online yeah he's available online and he has like all social media so just look up his name he's he's there but like that art piece kind of like it looks like a sugar skull but it's not a sugar skull, but it, you know where it's coming from. And like Lauren says, I have a hard time describing why I connect to this painting, but I just, whenever I see it,

0:29:21
I'm like, oh, you know, that's my culture, right? Like I can see it in this beautiful piece of art.

0:29:27
I really like what Eric says and this idea of, you know, if you want the small print, I have the $10 one, or if you want to buy my fancy one, we have it. And I think it's, we see this with Latino artists because we've been there, right? Like we remember growing up, going to these museums and like never being able to afford anything that's in there. And I think, and I don't want to speak for Eric, but I'm sure he's coming out of a place of where he remembers not being able to buy a big fancy piece. So for me, First Friday, when I started going, I've always known of First Friday, but I, again, when I was younger, I never really understood what it was and then once I got older I was like, oh This is an art place where I can go buy art and I can see all kinds of art art that pie You know, it's a good launching point for local artists here in town But for the most part it's if you're starting out This is a good place for just start and and as as a customer as a client, I guess you can say It's it's cool for me to go down there and just see what's going on See what people are painting about what they see as prevalent. Once the Golden Knights came into town, you saw a lot of Golden Knights art, right? You saw an artist, Nino, I can't remember his last name, but he launched a big career with painting the Misfits, the Las Vegas Misfits, that came out of First Friday. So First Friday has served to me as a launching point. If you wanna see what's the latest in art, First Friday's a good place to go.

0:30:46
I'm wanting to move us forward with our next topic, which is Latinx art representation versus tokenism. So another heavy theme. This is these two themes we've been navigating through the majority of our interviews here, because we all know that the media has a hard time grappling with the Latinx stories and even like with Latinx artists and actors. But yeah, there are a lot of quality Latinx artists out there who we need to support. And in this next clip, we will be hearing from one of them. Her name is Modestina Givera, and she is a director based out of the Dominican Republic. In this scene, she is describing the decade-long process that has been creating her short film titled, Enchiquillo Grita Libertad.

0:31:32
I prepared most of the actors to work on that movie. They were my students in New York. I brought 20 students. And then I designed the costumes.

0:31:45
I designed the costumes.

0:31:46
You know, the costumes were made with paint,

0:31:49
they were like tapas, like the Indians wore.

0:31:51
But the Spaniards, the Spanish women, Los españoles, las mujeres españoles llevaban unos trajes grandes, así, anchotes, con las mangas, así, con una... de la época del año 1528. Entonces, fue... Mira, mija, todavía yo estoy luchando con esa película. Ya tengo más de 10 años haciendo esa película. Y ahora, en Santo Domingo, me prometieron la industria del cine de cine ayudarme para la postproducción, que es ponerle la música, sonido, los títulos, los subtítulos en inglés, porque es en español la película. Entonces le van a poner subtítulos en inglés, la música, todo eso, pero ya está firmada. Y aunque todavía quiero hacer una escena, si me dan el dinero allá, quiero hacer una escena que me faltó, porque era muy costosa. Es un baile español del año 1528, donde la gente sale bailando y hay una pelea. Y una escena muy linda, pero era muy costosa, porque salen como 20 bailarines haciendo el baile. Y van todos vestidos de ya tú sabes, unos trajes muy costosos que hay que hacerle. Y entonces, por eso no lo había hecho. Pero si me ayudan, sí lo voy a hacer. Sí lo voy a hacer. But if they help me, I will do it. I will do it. But it is very, very difficult to make a film. To launch yourself, to make a film. Well, Salma Hayer, who said in an interview that I saw, that she spent 15 years to make Frida. And Salma has a lot of money, and has friends with a lot of money, and she spent 15 years preparing that film. I said, ah, well, look, I have 10 preparing mine. No, that's nothing. Because I am poor.

0:33:41
In that clip we heard Modestina Givera, also known as Tina, she likes to go by Tina. She was talking about her movie and how it has been such a process. She talks about it at length in her interview, but what's cool here is that we have a brown director with brown actors and a plot that is based around her culture, which is not, you would think, not as rare as it is, but unfortunately we have this current climate in the entertainment industry where we're dealing with, you know, this is the era of brown face, but it's not just that, you know, we have white directors who are telling our stories, and even when we do get a cast that is Latinx, it's a lot of times more white Latinx people, and like right off the top of my head, I'm thinking of all the telenovelas that are supposed to be our stories, but they feature very European looking people. So that goes into a whole other conversation about colorism. But what I'm trying to say is that we have a lot going on that is against our favor and people like, you know, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Guillermo del Toyo, even these household names can't save it. We need more than just that. So with all of this being said, what do you guys think about Tina's story?

0:34:58
I mean, I think it does a good job of illustrating the work that goes into this. I think it's very easy for people to go, well, if you want more people in Brown movies, go make them. Go make them.

0:35:09
But it's a lot of work.

0:35:10
And it's hard if you don't have the access to it. Again, she touches on that. She has limited resources, right? And she even says, you know, Salma Hayek, who has all the resources has trouble in making films. So it kind of shows that it's not as easy as just go out and do it yourself. You need help. You know, in my undergrad, I studied media. And, and so I was very into like studying pop culture and seeing how we were represented. And truth is, we're not very much on screen ever and if we are there stereotypes, right? There's stereotypes. There's this tokenism this idea where we're only in there because they needed a brown face But it's very rare to you know I mean, I can't think of a movie right now off the top of my head that I feel does a good job of like Telling our stories that was directed by a brown man. That was has a all-brown cast and centers like that's a tough like Black Panther's clothes

0:36:05
But it's a superhero movie. It's not real, you know, right?

0:36:08
And actually I was gonna touch on that like and I'm speaking when I say that I'm speaking it around Latino. Yeah Like the African American culture I think is doing a fantastic job with it, you know, Black Panther did amazing Jordan Peele with what he's putting out is doing great So the african-american culture feels ahead of us in that aspect as well as getting out getting us in Getting ourselves into that space but I Without a doubt I feel the african-american community is ahead of us in that aspect of getting us into representation spaces

0:36:42
Actually Tina in the in this clip She mentions the issue with funding and then she also mentions that there's a film industry in the Dominican Republic and she says it is called Pro Capital Film Studios. One of the biggest helpers in getting this movie the amount of resources it needs because it gives money so that people from the Dominican Republic can make movies there. So they're trying to get more movies made out of that studios, therefore they will fund it more.

0:37:13
Right, and I think that touches on the fact that for those who have made it, and the Latino community is really good at doing this, but for the people who have made it, they almost have a responsibility of teaching those who are trying to and helping those who are trying to.

0:37:26
Which is why I really admire Guillermo del Toro. Like he has set up scholarships and academies for film animators and all these great things in Mexico. And so he is one, he champions for his community and he opens doors because he knows that there's no doors to Open because there's nothing right so he has to set it up

0:37:45
And I mean you can see once you pump in the money and invest in our artists we pay off Because let's let's think back at the last four Oscars ceremonies who were like the the best directors have all been Mexican

0:37:57
Yeah, the last like three or four years have all been Mexican. Yeah, I think we can all agree that positive representation is important, the key word there being positive. So we're going to switch the conversation over to something we touched on, but are going to delve further into, which is tokenism. So furthering the conversation on representation, Monse, would you like to introduce this next

0:38:18
clip? Yeah, so I had the opportunity to interview Aze Daniels, who is a senior conference sales manager at the Wynn, but he is also a local theater director and actor. And so Ace Daniels really talks about representation in theater and how, you know, watching this particular play that he talks about really opened his eyes and made him appreciate his culture

0:38:43
and the importance of representation. So let's listen to it real quick.

0:38:46
So, I, as what I noticed, I think it's another reason why I appreciate my culture so much, as an artist, I notice that our culture is very underrepresented in theatrical literature. Very underrepresented, you know? You know, I took a class on gay plays, gay literature. So like, okay, there's representation there. There's another class offered on plays that fall into the African American culture. So there's that whole canon, you know, and there is context there. But I'm like, why aren't there any stories about Latinos? Except for West Side Story, which is so dated, you know what I mean?

0:39:35
It's crazy.

0:39:36
There aren't.

0:39:37
And your actors relate them to us.

0:39:38
Yes, you know?

0:39:39
And that really began to bother me. I think it came from a place where I realized that there aren't, there's not enough opportunity for me as a performer because you have to be very honest with yourself with what is my type, what is my look, when I walk into an audition room, how do directors see me? And I have a very specific look. I have a very specific look. People tell me, like, oh, you look like you can pass for different ethnicities, you're versatile in that way, but still, when you look at the page and you know, at least for me as an artist, I think if race is a topic in the story, if it is a theme, you need to be true to the race in terms of casting-wise. Like if the character, I'm just going to use Hairspray for an example. In Hairspray, there is a theme of racism. So it's important that you have Caucasian actors and you have African American actors, because you have to serve that theme, that storyline. In West Side Story, that's another good example, racism is a theme between the Caucasians and the Puerto Ricans. So I think you have to have actors who look Puerto Rican. weekend. But my point in this is that when you look at like the how broad theater is it just there weren't enough stories about Latinos. And then my best friend told me about there is this play off-broadway that you have to listen to the album and I don't remember how he got the album because it wasn't the official cast recording but he sent me like a bootleg copy of the cast recording it was in the Heights. And this was like when it was off-Broadway, hadn't even gone on to win the Tony Awards and all that stuff that came. And I got it, and I was like, oh, okay, and I never even listened to it. I was like, whatever. It went on to win the Tonys, but it still wasn't in my periphery, you know? Wasn't until I saw the Performing Arts High School do In the Heights, I will never forget, I knew that they were mounting it. This was the first time it was being done here. And even though it's at a high school level, this is a performing arts high school, and they do things at a very high level. I took my mother to that performance. I don't take my mother to see much theater. But for this, I felt like I knew what I was gonna be walking into in terms of the storyline. And are you familiar with In the Heights?

0:42:00
Yeah, and your parents landed in Washington, D.C.

0:42:03
Yes.

0:42:04
So there was, knowing that my parents, that's part of their backstory, I was like, I should take my mother to this.

0:42:10
I think she would appreciate it.

0:42:11
We sat front row, and it was, like, I will never forget the emotions that I felt watching that production. It was a well done production, but it was also just hearing the story, hearing the music, and seeing my culture, my culture as a Dominican, represented on stage, brought such pride, you know? And I'll never forget, like my mom, like, there was a character called Piragua, and she told me, she's like, I remember that guy, I remember seeing that guy when she lived in Washington Heights. And that stuck with me. But I was so proud that my culture was being, like, on stage, you know, we've seen Latinos represented on film, on movie, not enough, but we've seen them, but not in an authentic way. We're always like the drug dealer, or, you know, being in the projects. And here I was listening to a story where we were represented as humans, as normal people, and represented in such a beautiful way, like it really, it showed the joy that we as Latinos feel. It just, it took our culture and put it on stage and celebrated who we are. It celebrated, rather than say, they're the drug dealer, they're the prostitute, they're like the stereotypical Latina with five kids, you know? It just ignored all of that and just depicted us as humans in a beautiful way. And I felt so much pride. And that moment I left, I kid you not, I left that and I told myself, at that moment, that became my dream show. I said, I'm gonna do this show someday. I'm gonna produce this someday. And what I meant is like, as I'm telling myself, some way, shape, or form, at some point in my life, I'm gonna be involved in this production, whether that means I'm on stage, whether that means I'm directing it, whether that means I'm the one somehow finding the money to put this together, whether that means I'm just backstage pushing senior around. I don't care, but I have to be a part of this production because it speaks to so much of who I am culturally. And that's when I really began to become very proud of my culture, is at that moment. Speak your truth into existence and the universe will listen. Four years later, I told you about Beating the Beast and how I was thrown in as an understudy, and I'm learning that in three days. And I'm backstage with the choreographer, learning choreography, like, very frantically, and I hear the pre-show announcements. They were announcing the next season, and they said, oh, and we're doing In the Heights next season. And I literally stopped dead, like, with what I was doing. I said, did I just hear what I thought I heard? Like, they're doing In the Heights next year here? And at that moment, I knew it was like, I'm going to be in that show. I'm going to be in that show. I literally, like, I remember I went home and I planned my calendar. I'm very, very structured and scheduled and everything else. I cleared my calendar to make room in my life for this show. I told my husband, just so you know, I'm gonna be in that show. This is happening.

0:45:42
I think a big part of representation is not just us being featured in more, I don't wanna use stereotypical because obviously we don't see it that way, but in movies that are definitely more like telling of the Latinx story, it's very valid for us to want to see movies that are like Ariel or like Friends, but with people that look like us because it is a different perspective. And if we're going to talk about representation, then we need to acknowledge that it's not always going to be about race. Sometimes it does really just need to be us being multifaceted people where that's not the core of our of the plot line.

0:46:21
Right. And then like he touched on West Side Story, which is right like the first Latino, Latino in quotes.

0:46:27
Where Rita Moreno won her Oscar from.

0:46:30
Yeah.

0:46:30
But then if you look into the history of that movie, the half of the cast was white. They just sprayed at them.

0:46:34
And that's even Rita Moreno.

0:46:36
Right. So, yeah, like, you know, it's not just enough to represent us, give us our stories in Latino, you know, but also cast us in the roles that were meant for us. But going back to theater, like we need more representation. We need more Latino writers.

0:46:51
You know, we've been having a conversation about representation for a while. And while we all agree that positive representation is important, let's switch over to maybe the not so great bits of representation, aka tokenism. So in this next clip, we will hear from Dr. Emanuel Ortega, professor of art history. He's also known as Babelito from Latinos Who Lunch. And in this next clip, he talks about tokenism in academia.

0:47:18
Yeah, I'm a token Latino in all of the art history departments, and I'm always going to be that. But I am the face of representation in the classroom, and that's exactly what we were mentioning before. And I think understanding those roles is important when you go into academia, because I had no idea. I had no idea what I was gonna, what I was getting into. Otherwise I don't think I would have done it. And that's what's scaring a lot of kids that now they understand that. Or when they hear the podcast, they understand that. But I wouldn't discourage anybody not to go to grad school. I mean, it changed my life. It's very complicated. It's very, very complicated because even though we many times are tokens in a lot of these departments, just like we're tokens in a lot of media, you know, sometimes you have to start somewhere. And I think it's necessary. So I think my presence in UIC, it's loud. It's loud. And I've made it so, you know. My classes are popular and it's, I don't think it has a lot to do with me. It's just the fact that a Mexican is teaching Mexican art, you know.

0:48:35
And this kind of brings me into the next topic. So these conversations we've been having about representation, tokenism, even cultural appropriation, it's difficult to decide where we draw the line. So I want to know from you guys, if you have any personal experiences with feeling like you're the token something.

0:48:58
I do. And I'm in the same space as Bablito. I teach English at one of the local high schools here. And I'm actually the only Latino in the English department. And it's good and it's bad. It's good because in one aspect the school I teach at has a big Latino population. So yes, my students get to come to a classroom with a Latino. And unfortunately, I'm still teaching the Anglo canon because that's what the district has approved and I can't teach anything else. But at least I get to twist it a little bit and give it my own twist with my own thoughts on it. And they get to hear a perspective that isn't the same perspective that they can get to, right? But then there are moments where, like, being the only Latino, and I actually work with a couple Latinas, but I am only the only Latino there, but I mean, Babilito, like, hits it on the head. If we want to break these spaces where we're not representative. All right, like I always tell people I can count in one hand How many Latino? Teachers professors I've had in my whole academic career and for my kids I know I'm gonna be the first one on their list of first Latino teachers They've ever had in their academic career and unfortunately, it's when they're halfway through their high school career But yeah, well, he thought hits it on the head. If we want to break into these spaces, we have to start somewhere. And if you're the first one, you're going to be a token. Now whether that's a negative thing or a positive thing, it's on you, right?

0:50:40
The difference between tokenism and exploitation.

0:50:43
Right. And so we have to walk this fine line of how often am I willing to be the token? But if me being the token educates you into something better, then okay, I don't mind

0:50:56
it. So I think Babelito does a great job of talking about how just because you're Latino or Latinx, you're gonna be tokenized, right?

0:51:05
So is it almost like a necessary evil?

0:51:08
Yes, especially in places where that's not-

0:51:14
Where we're the first ones to break into that space.

0:51:16
Yeah. So like, for lack of a better term, a white space, right? And so like, when you're the first one there, you're going to be tokenized, you're going to be scrutinized as well, right?

0:51:25
And it's a lot of weight to carry knowing that you are the representation for all of your culture, apparently.

0:51:30
Yeah. Right. And because of that weight, I sometimes don't blame people for those... For being tired, but for Latinos who have white privilege and who can pass, sometimes I don't blame them for not claiming the Latinidad because that's a burden to have to be the one that always, and sometimes it's easier to just be like, that's not me.

0:51:54
You go into the spiral of like, okay, why is it bad to be a token of representation of your entire culture? You're representing your entire culture just for like existing in that white space. But at the same time, there's a lot of cons to like being a token, but also a lot of pros because you get to determine what that means, right? It's a big responsibility, but you have a lot of leeway in that you need, you can define what you want to highlight about yourself, about your culture, and that kind of stuff. And so it's great to be part of that groundbreaking work. And you know, every job I've ever had, I was a minority, I was one, if not the only Spanish speaker there. And so like that fell as part of my responsibility, right, translating and interpreting for people, and that kind of stuff. And so, you know, there hasn't been a moment in my life where I wasn't a token in some way, shape, or form, right? And like, especially now with like this project, right? It feels like just being part of this project, you're a token right now of the university, right? And that's not necessarily a bad thing. If anything, that's a great thing. But there is a thin line between tokenization and exploitation of being a token.

0:53:07
All of this stuff that we've been talking about has become very personal. We're talking about a lot of the issues that can be in a sense, the way I think of it, represented through art. And that's going to be the next theme, art as a means of addressing trauma. Because art, for those who create it, know that it can be very therapeutic. And we're going to be hearing next from poet Ashley Vargas, also known as Miss A.V., as she talks about the real-world issues that she writes into poetry.

0:53:39
What started off as just like, let me tell my story for my own therapeutic, you know, sort of thing, has really become a source of power to women that I could have never anticipated. I could have never anticipated. And, you know, and so many people will come, even if they're like bawling, crying, they will come, they'll ask if they can hug me, just because in that moment, they don't feel like they're alone, that it's not just them. You know, and I spend a lot of time doing poetry in schools on the East Side, high schools, middle schools, charter schools. And I tell these stories. I tell, you know, the story about, you know, my sister is anymore. I talk about, you know, being Latin and dealing with the racism of my ex-husband being black and what that meant and the things my family would tell me and even getting divorced and them telling me, well, you should have known better. Like, if you would have married a Latin guy, then this shit wouldn't have happened to you. You know, and when at what point are you going to learn to not date black people anymore? You know, so I talk about these things. So for me, you know, there are moments that I am in the community, talking to them, doing speaking engagements, trying to bring awareness and strength to people. But I would say more so through my bravery to tell my story helps other people also be brave. And that has been probably the biggest revelation of my work that it's not just

0:55:29
me anymore. It's not just my story. So from here we could go in many different directions. A lot of the artists we've been talking about will, you know, use their art as a form of symbolizing their identity. This is yet another way we can create art, taking the struggles that we deal with and turning them into a form of almost like a political thing where we will reach out to others and say, hey, we're coming from this same space. And that's something that we see a lot within like these Latinx interviews. So I guess what I want to ask you guys is after all of today, you know, what does art mean to you if you guys create art or if you mostly

0:56:11
consume it? What do you guys think? So for me art means a form of expression, a form of liberation, a form of expressing one's emotions in ways that are more effective than your average forms of communication like talking or singing or stuff like that. And so to me, art is liberation in a sense that you can't get anywhere else. Art is a concept that can be constructed in different shapes and forms. So for a person to be able to have that liberation is amazing, but also as a consumer, seeing all these different mediums of art and expression is really great because you might not, not everyone will connect to one piece, but what if they watch a play or what if they, you know, listen to a poem or what if they take an art class, right? So there's different mediums and there's so much liberty in that.

0:57:19
To me, the arts is important. We need to, especially Latino culture, needs to kind of encourage our young Latino artists because you know what? We're never gonna get the movies that we want. We're never gonna get the TV shows that we want if we don't encourage Latino youth who have an interest in the arts. You want arts, we need to encourage it.

0:57:39
I think that art is just instrumental to furthering our message. I think there's no greater form of communication than through art, whether that be painting, whether that be poetry. And I love how her artwork is so, like the imagery that she uses is so almost visceral because she's very true in what she's talking about, even the really, really difficult things that maybe you can't put into words. I'm someone who has a hard time with words, so it's great knowing that I can seek people who know how to express what I'm feeling deep down. Like she mentioned, it's not just her speaking her truth. When I read her works or when anyone else reads what she writes, it's like all this stuff that we never had the ability to say because we couldn't put it together because we maybe don't have that artistic mind of hers.

0:58:27
We can't articulate.

0:58:28
I can't articulate it at all, but she has it. And with that kind of talent, of course, you've got to share it.

0:58:35
I mean, at the end of the day, like we've talked about, we need to have these conversations of, you know, these uncomfortable conversations of what's going on in this political climate and what's going on in our communities. And sometimes it is difficult to articulate it, but, you know, art that is made by people of color especially the Latino community they become tools for us to have this conversation

0:58:54
They've done that work for us. We should use it. And I think

0:58:57
Ace Daniels touched upon that like when you humanize someone it's so much easier to empathize with someone

0:59:04
Right, and so all the people that we featured on this episode Really? They get it right. We lived it. We're living it and it's our responsibility to teach it.

0:59:17
Great conversation, guys.

0:59:19
Thank you. Thank you.

0:59:23
Thank you for listening to Latinx Voices Unfelled series. Each episode features smaller parts of larger interviews with community members. These interviews were conducted by research assistants at the Oral History Research Center. To hear these interviews in full, contact UNLV Special Collections and Archives at 702-895-2234. Special thanks to Yoni Kessler for our theme music, and to performing musicians Ricardo Arana, Tasos Kaltekis, Marshall Peterson, and Spencer Pfeiffer.

0:59:57
Audio engineering by Ron George. Audio engineering by Ron George.

1:00:00
Production engineering by Kevin Kroll. This podcast is a production of KUNV Radio and the UNLV Rebel Media Group.

Transcribed with Cockatoo