Latinx Voices Unveiled

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This is Clay T. White, director of UNLV's Oral History Research Center. Support for the Latinx Voices Unveiled series is provided by the National Endowment for the Humanities, MGM Resorts International, the Commission for the Las Vegas Centennial, Mark and Mary Ann Haley, Envy Energy, and the Culinary Workers Union Local 226.

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UNLV's Oral History Research Center presents Latinx Voices Unveiled Series. Today's episode is brought to you by the Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada Oral History Project, a UNLV libraries initiative to record the marginalized voices of the Latinx community.

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This series is produced by the UNLV Rebel Media Group.

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Yonda amigos y amigas, me llamo Lawrence Spanielos Benitez, and I will be your host for this episode of the Latinx Voices Unveiled. This is my first appearance on the podcast, so let me take a quick minute to introduce myself before we get started. I am a Las Vegas native born and raised on the east side of the valley. I am a CCSD English teacher currently working on my master's in education. I joined the Latinx Voices Project as a graduate assistant because I believe that this project will become an essential tool for our community to change the narrative about ourselves and to show the rest of the world that we, the Latinx community, have helped build and maintain this town since the beginning. With that being said, the title of today's episode is Herencia. The episode will focus on the traditions and celebrations practiced and inherited by the Latinx community and how these traditions evolved over time. Joining me in today's discussion are my fellow team members, Monte Hernandez and Elsa Lopez. ¿Cómo están?

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I'm great.

0:01:41
Yeah, pretty good.

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Everyone had a good Fourth?

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Yes. It's kind of funny. We're talking about celebrations and things that we do as a Latinx community, and we just had this big American holiday yesterday. So let's dive a little bit into that, right? Let's talk about how we as the Latinx community celebrate this big American holiday.

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Well, firstly, it's kind of conflicting. I mean, I celebrate 4th of July with my family, but it's never something that we plan. It's just some, it's almost like another excuse to come together and make a lot of food. And also my youngest sister, she has her birthday on the 5th. So I'm kind of in that unique situation where we come together regardless. So it's a lot of food. There are currently tamales at my house, which is awesome. And yesterday we all went to the UNLV parking lot to see the fireworks that are on the strip. And I mean, the fireworks show last night was okay. But yeah, it's nothing big. I mean, it's an excuse to just hang out and to make food.

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Right. I think that's how I see it too with my family. It's just, it's another reason

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to get together and watch the fireworks. Monta? I feel like that was the only day where I actually felt like I was part of this country Like that's really weird to say like I've grown up here I was born here but somehow fireworks are like a uniter for us and so when we see them like we can all come together and like Staring all to like these fireworks, but that was like the only day we're like it was okay to like Accept that like I'm American that kind of stuff. So that was like the only day.

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Well, you know, it's funny that you mentioned that because, and I don't know if this is true for your guys, but when I was going through my social yesterday, they were, of course, you saw your typical happy Fourth of July, let's celebrate the country, you know, this is our day of independence. But I noticed a lot of my fellow Latinx people were posting things of feeling conflicted, of, you know, how are we gonna celebrate the independence of a country that sometimes makes us feel like they don't want us here? And so a lot of people, a lot of my friends decided, you know, I'm not celebrating this year, this year. Instead of celebrating, I'm going to hold remembrance for what's going on to our community and the rest of the country. And I think that's a very powerful thing to do.

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So it's like in solidarity, we're not going to observe the Fourth of July sort of thing?

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Right. That's what I saw a lot. So I mean, and I think that's a cool thing and a good segue into our episode where we can talk about how these traditions evolved, right? Because it goes from, yes, let's celebrate the 4th of July with fireworks, let's have our grilling, but now with what's going on in the political climate, now it's kind of we can see this slow evolution of maybe it's not a day for celebration, but maybe a day for at least the Latino community to reflect, be critical. Yes. All right. So 4th of July, that's one of the big kind of communal celebrations. And let's, before we get into our clips, let's talk a little bit more of traditions within our families. Mons, any traditions?

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Like the one that I remember most was like what I would consider my normal. And then I realized that not everyone celebrates it this way was Thanksgiving. Like Thanksgiving, either we made Mexican food or something that was completely unrelated to your average turkey dinner and stuff because my family has never made a turkey themselves. Like if we eat turkey for Thanksgiving, it's because a friend brought it over or because we went to another house or something like that. So we would make like tamales or pozole or something like extremely Mexican along with like side dishes and things like that. And then that would be like our Thanksgiving dinner. And then we would also say like, we would say grace and everything what we were thankful for for that year. So that was like my thing growing up, like Thanksgiving. Yeah, we celebrated Thanksgiving, but it was very Mexican in that sense.

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I actually wanna touch on something that you mentioned Montep, saying something that it was your normal. Can you expand a little bit more on that?

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Yeah, like things that as a kid I didn't think were, you know, weird or foreign or anything like that, like that was my normal, right? But then like, as I got older, as I like, you know, became acquainted with, you know, more, I guess, you can say like white people and all of that, like I realized that like my family was a little bit different. We did the same things that were considered American, but we did them in our own way, right? We adapted them and we made the best of it, like, based on what we knew, right? Because no one, like, when you come to this country, there's not one person that says, like, this is what it means to be American, right?

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Right, there's not this, like, you don't get handed this message, like, how to be American once you walk in.

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No, like, you kind of like, you know, through like the media, through what you see in your community, through school, that kind of stuff. Like, oh, you know, this is what we do. Thanksgiving is American. Fourth of July is American, you know, like Valentine's and like all these like days that are predominantly celebrated here in the United States, right? And so like your family just takes bits and pieces of what they understand. And so my mom knew that you had to make a big dinner and you had to give thanks, right, for like what you got that year. And so she never knew of the turkey and she knew there was turkeys in the store, but she's like, I don't know how to make one, so I'm just gonna make another plate, right? And so then like every year we go around, like it's not just one person saying grace, it's like every year we go around and each person individually says like what they're thankful for, what they look forward to for the next coming year, that kind of stuff. So I feel like that in itself is very American, but like the actual food that we had wouldn't be American Even though it is American because we are American celebrating it in our own way It's valid because we're here and if America is as diverse as we like to think it is then I'd say that's valid

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And that's cool, right and that you know That's a theme that we're actually seeing and some of the interviews that we're doing We're seeing a lot of these people talk about their traditions that they would do at home and not realize that everyone didn't do this until they got older, until they got exposed to more people outside of the Latino community. So a good example of that is from the clip that we're about to hear from. This is from Judge Valeria Vega, and she's describing her family Easter celebration and how she didn't realize that the way her family celebrated Easter was just a little bit different from how mainstream America celebrated Easter.

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One of the things that I loved was Easter because we do the Easter egg hunts and stuff too. And my grandma and grandpa lived across the street from a park, so we would do the Easter egg hunt in the park. My mom's side of the family was not Hispanic, and that side of the family would bring ham. My dad's side of the family that was Hispanic would always bring tamales. I thought everybody had ham and tamales on Easter Sunday until I was about in junior high. I found out from some of my fellow students that he didn't have ham and tamales on Easter Sunday.

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I felt like they were really deprived.

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I like what she said right at the end of that clip. She says, I feel like they were deprived when she says that the rest of her classmates weren't having ham and tamales. And I think that is a very interesting viewpoint of having, instead of saying, I'm not the weird one, you're the weird one, because you don't have tamales and ham, right?

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I Okay, when I saw this or I'm sorry when I listened to this it reminded me of this cute little anecdote And I want to know if any of you guys have experienced this too, but my parents did not teach me about Santa Claus so during Christmas time I would go with them to Go shopping for presents and I knew that they bought me the presents like we're all there. When we put the presents underneath the tree, it wasn't signed like from Santa or anything. I knew that it was from my mom and dad. But that's because our culture is different. You know, the kids in America, they fully believe in Santa Claus. And the thing is, I was that one really annoying kid that on the playground, I was like, you're right, Santa's not real. Following that logic, Tooth Fairy's not real.

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But yeah, so actually for myself I relate to Judge Vega here Because and that's so much because I have family that is not Latino But my mother is Salvadorian and my dad's Mexican and even though they're both Latino they're very different countries and very different cultures and And being a product of that I didn't realize that I was getting two different culture experiences until I grew up and started meeting people who were either all Salvadorian or all completely Mexican. And so one of the things, like bringing it back to tamales, there were days where we would have Salvadorian tamales, which are wrapped in banana leaves instead of your corn husk, which more people who are more mainstream, that's how they might recognize tamales is the one wrapped up in corn husk versus the banana ones. And then some days we'd have Mexican tamales because my dad being Mexican and my mom loving my dad would still make them more traditional dishes. So I thought they were just tamales to me. These are Salvadoran tamales. These are Mexican tamales. They were just all tamales. They were all good and it wasn't until I got older and they were like, no, not everyone grows up with both tamales.

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Alright, let's listen to business consultant and chairwoman of the Latin Chamber of Commerce, Maggie Arias-Petrel, talk about her life in Ecuador and her family's connection to NASA. So her story is really interesting.

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So growing up in Quito was a very beautiful childhood. My mom, who is now a retired teacher, she was a teacher in high school. She actually had a Ph.D. in education and she was always involved with the youth. Her students in the all-girls high school that she used to teach just adore her and she was always so busy with that. And then my dad was a mechanical engineer for NASA. NASA at that time, back in the 70s, had a big station in South America to track the shuttles that used to be in space at that time and the missions, especially the early missions, like the first man on the moon and all of that, because we are right on the equator and there are certain points on the equator that are the tallest in the world that could actually track the shadows. So my dad was part of that and he worked for NASA for 25 years. It was a very happy childhood growing up back home. But in some way, shape or form, I was always linked to the United States because my dad was working for NASA. So I grew up meeting astronauts. I grew up getting the opportunity to have early childhood friends that were American.

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So what I really like about this clip is when people think of NASA, that is a completely like American idea, right? Like the Americans went to the moon. Sure, we didn't go to space first, the Russians have that honor. But when we think of the space race and that whole era with John F. Kennedy, it's all very American. And in the media, currently the last few years, we've seen a lot of stories put out by Hollywood about things that went on in NASA. You know, we had Hidden Figures, which was a fantastic movie that focused on the African-American women that helped with the math calculations. We also had, I think it was First Man, I think it was, with Ryan Gosling being the lead in his journey. But they're all very American movies. And you can keep going back. There's Apollo 11 with Tom Hanks. I mean, every NASA movie that I think about is all very centered around America and what they did. What they don't talk about, and what this interview does really good, is shed that light that there's Latinos also working in NASA.

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Her dad was a mechanical engineer working for NASA, waking up the astronauts for telling them that they were passing the equator. So she grew up in a very American atmosphere in the middle of Ecuador. And that's crazy. And so I wanted to include this clip in this episode because it sheds light on how one way or another, Latino America has always been connected to the US in some way, shape, or form. And what's more American than NASA, right? Right. She's connected to probably the most American voyage. Or institute.

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Institute. Because I can't think of any negativity that we can say about NASA. NASA is one of those few American institutions where everyone's kind of like, it's severely underfunded at the moment, but everyone's proud of it.

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Everybody's proud of NASA. Like, oh wow, NASA, science, right? Like the technology that they come up with and all the medical innovations and you know, breakthrough technologies that they've done in the past 60 years, right? It's crazy how much NASA has contributed to humanity as a whole, right? But the reason they are able to do such things is because their team is so immense. And I think that's, I mean, I'm glad that you included that clip because you're right. We have movies like Hidden Figures that give us one perspective, but imagine all the other perspectives that we have yet to hear.

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Before we move on to the next clip, I really want to give a shout out because speaking of NASA and Latinos, I did a quick Google search and I just want to name a couple of cool things that I found, or actually one. But the first Latina in space was, in Google it says Ellen Ochoa. I'm going to take a guess in the dark and say she goes by Elena, Americanized, it happens a lot. But she was the first Latina in space in 1991.

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1991?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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So, the next clip we're going to listen to is from Freddy, Freddy Chavez. He is the director of the Bolivian Carnival. He did it back home, but when he immigrated to Las Vegas, he brought that carnival with you. And that was his way of staying in touch with his culture, even though now he lives in the States. Before we get into the clip, though, I want to ask you guys, and I'll start with you, Elsa, how does your family stay in touch with their culture, even though they've been living here in the States?

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Let's see.

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Definitely the food. We talk about that a lot. Music, speaking the language at home. We communicate a lot with my family back in Mexico, both my mom does and my dad. They talk on the phone all the time, we keep up with the current events. Luckily we have news stations here that keep us up to date with what's going on over there.

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I would say for my family, it's cheering on the Mexican soccer team. Oh, there's that too. That's like a religion in itself. If you guys don't know this, the Mexican soccer team is called El Tri. And so all Mexican, Mexican-Americans, they root for El Tri like it's a religious entity, right? And so that's a way, like cheering on Mexico in a competitive competition, stuff like that.

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And if I'm not mistaken, El Tri, the Mexican national team, is actually more popular in the state than the actual U.S. men's team. And that's because of all generations of Mexican-Americans that we have here. We feel more connected to that team than we do the American team.

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Well, I mean, the U.S. doesn't have a soccer culture like Mexico does, so we bring that over and that's something that we celebrate here. The tradition that we pass on to our kids and to our younger generations, like, okay, you might live in the States and you might be born here and all your family's here, but at the end of the day, when it comes to football or soccer, you're going to cheer for the motherland because they're actually good.

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Right. And then my experience with my family keeping in touch is similar to Elsa's where we watch the news here, especially in the Southwest. A lot of the Spanish networks bring you news from the Latin American countries. I know like currently my parents cable package offers them a Salvadorian TV network so my mom's actually able to watch news and programming from El Salvador and stay in touch with it But with the advent of social media and just tech becoming more prevalent Like I remember one of my like things that my mom would send me out to do was to go buy phone cards I would go to the corner market and buy phone cards so my mom could call home. We don't do that anymore because my mom can use WhatsApp, Facebook, whatever, or WhatsApp,

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sorry.

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WhatsApp, yeah.

0:18:34
WhatsApp to stay in touch. So through communication, they've always been keeping in touch with family back home, the food, traditions. Photos. And another, photos, relaying stories, that was a big thing in my family. My mom is a refugee of the Salvadorian Civil War, and I grew up hearing stories of what happened in Salvador and why she had to leave the country. And yes, I did not physically live through that experience, but because of the stories that my mom told, I mean, I was a fifth grader with knowledge of a foreign civil war, and I don't know how many fifth graders know that, right? Most fifth graders are still worried about figuring out their multiplications versus me. I was knowledgeable about foreign affairs because of my parents.

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And how the US responds to it too.

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Right, exactly. Okay, so all of that is to say or to come back to this clip of Freddie who when he was growing up in Bolivia was so passionate about this carnival that they held in his town that when he came to the States he felt like he needed to bring it now and bring it with him and it's actually now I believe its official name is a Latino festival I got a double check but it's a it's a thing now it's a traditional thing it's a Las Vegas tradition now and he helped built it so we're gonna we're gonna play this clip I will let you guys know this clip is in Spanish and the reason for that is we want we don't want to narrate we don't want to take away from the original person's voice so this clip is going to be in Spanish at the end of it though we'll summarize what was said.

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llegaron a nuestros países y trajeron esas tradiciones de allá. Pero con el tiempo pues agarró lo que es la cultura de cada región, de cada país. Y usualmente el carnaval se hace para la Semana Santa, antes de la cuaresma. Entonces se viene y se dice que el carnaval viene del nombre carne, carnología. ¿Por qué? Porque la gente, especialmente los esclavos y todo eso, era la forma de desahogarse y de liberarse de la esclavitud y de tantas cosas. Entonces, era tres días de carnaval que ellos podían pecar, podían hacer de todo, ¿no? Beber, de todo, ¿no? Hasta con su carne, ¿no? in And today it has become a cultural exhibition with a carnival style. Why? Because it still brings glamour, fantasy, priots, everything. You have seen the photos, the feigns with so much glamour and everything. The only carnivals that are still known worldwide with that pagan, carnivalesque trajectory Pagana Carnavalesca, es el carnaval de Rio de Janeiro en Brasil y el carnaval de New Orleans en Estados Unidos. Esos son los que más ahorita todavía siguen las tradiciones antiguas. Los restos de carnavales como México, Argentina, Colombia, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Venezuela, todo eso, muestran ya un poco más cultural, mostrando las raíces autóctonas tradicionales y todo. the traditional traditions and everything. What is being avoided is that those traditions that our ancestors had do not die. That's why I... one, because I like it, and another because I said, we are here in the United States, many children, many youth, sometimes on television they hear me say Carnival, one minute, one or two seconds, but they don't know what that is, the passion, the joy, the fantasy, la pasión, la alegría, la fantasía, el glamour, la felicidad que trae eso. Entonces yo decidí, dije que estamos en Las Vegas y que no hay un carnaval en Las Vegas,

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a Las Vegas le falta algo para estar completa, ¿no? Y así nació el carnaval. Okay, so to summarize a little bit of what Fede is speaking in that clip, So he gives us a little bit of history. He tells us that these carnivals were born out of pagan holidays, pagan traditions, and it was a way for indigenous people to kind of celebrate some of their roots, kind of have this big festival, and it kind of happened before. It aligns with the Catholic holidays, where you have this big festive festival, everyone drinks, everyone eats, you know, parties all night, and then the next day, they go on as normal, right? The normal, they go back to their normal traditions, normal work, kind of, it's your one big outlet for fun, and then everyone goes back. He says, though, as time went on, these carnivals evolved again, right? And they kind of got away from that big, big party feel to them. He says the only ones that are still a big party are actually the ones that are still famous which would be the Carnival of Rio de Janeiro in Brazil and the New Orleans Mardi Gras Festival. Those are the two big famous ones and they're the ones who have stayed close to what the carnivals were originally when they were first started. The carnivals in the rest of the countries and he names a few are Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, and of course his own native Bolivia, these carnival festivals evolved into becoming more of tradition of not necessarily a big party, but for the community to remember its roots, traditions of the past.

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Yeah, what I really liked what he mentioned is like, para que no se mueran aquellas tradiciones que tenían nuestros antepasados. So like, for those traditions that our ancestors had so they won't die. These traditions won't die. And I feel like that's very relevant to today and like our experience like we don't want our heritage to die. But in particular, like one, if not the biggest example is Dia de los Muertos, right? And so that one, the Aztecs and the Mesoamericans had celebrated that for hundreds of years. And they actually did it in August, right, like this whole day to celebrate the dead, but then along came the Sanish, and they wanted them to like convert, and the indigenous were like, well, we don't want your religion, like we don't understand, like what does your religion have to do with us, right? And so like the monks here in, you know, what is now Mexico, they're like, oh, if we really want them to convert, we have to take their traditions and apply them to Catholicism. So that's why we get our November 1st and 2nd, which is traditionally the Catholic holiday of like the day of All Saints, right? Like All Saints Day. And so they mixed it together. So in Mexico, they kind of celebrate pagan Catholicism, because it's a mixture of what the indigenous celebrated along with Catholicism. And they did that so that they would appeal, like Catholicism would appeal to the indigenous traditions. And so you have many aspects that are still very indigenous, like the flower, the marigold flower, right? That's an indigenous flower and it symbolizes light and life and all these things, right? And it's very well rooted in the Day of the Dead, but then you also have like Christ and like the holy water and stuff like that, that it's still very, you know, Catholic. And so that's like the mixture of cultures, but also like, so that our ancestors' traditions won't die.

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And Freddie did mention that, that this started because of Spain and the conquistadores. They brought this tradition with them. But then as time went on, each region, which eventually became the separate countries of Latino America, gave it their own flavor. And then Freddy, at the end, he says when he came here, he couldn't believe Las Vegas didn't have a carnival. Like, how is it this big party town, this big festive town doesn't have its own carnival? And that's where he felt that was his role to fill in our community by bringing that carnival to town. So now I want to go into this next clip. This next clip is from Kelly Benavides. She is a community liaison for North Las Vegas and Commissioner Weekly. She talks about how, and her clip is really good at comparing how the traditions from Mexico are, like if you go to Mexico on Christmas, that experience is very, very different from if you're celebrating Christmas here in the States, even though you're Mexican-American. You know, right? This is the idea in mainstream America that Latinidad is just everything's the same, right? You know, you can Colombians, Salvadorians, the Panama, it's all the same experience. But Kelly's testimony or interview illustrates very well that even if you're Mexican and you're going to Mexico to celebrate the same holiday, you're going to have a very different experience than you are here at the States. So that's the being said we're going to go ahead and play Kelly's interview.

0:28:09
In the holidays over there is so important, you know, the Christmas I think maybe that's why I'm so disconnected with Christmas here because in Mexico it wasn't about like Santa and the toys it was about like the experience of of the Virgin Mary coming and doing posadas, where you go from door to door and the kids would dress up. And it's a totally different experience. It's more spiritual, I guess. And it definitely connected me. Like, those two years connected me to my culture, my family.

0:28:45
Can you tell me more about the posadas?

0:28:48
So I'm really torn because I really want to take my son for him to experience it, but it's always during school time, so it's not like I can pack him up and take him. So in the Posadas, every neighborhood gets together, and it's like every day a neighborhood gets picked, and they do a Posada where they dress up a little boy as Joseph, and they get a donkey, and they go from house to house singing carols. And so you sing carols, and you're asking for them to open the doors to their home. So of course, the last house is the one that opens the door to the kids' carolers, and there's always a party, and they always end up with the hot chocolate and the pan dulce, and so little things like that, like the kids don't get the big gifts and the game systems and all that. Like, they don't care about that. It's about the fun of experiencing of the meaning of Christmas, which I try to instill that, but it's so hard here, because here it is so commercialized. You know, everything is about the gifts and what you're gonna get. You know, it's just a totally different experience there

0:30:05
I really relate to this this clip

0:30:07
Yeah, like with me for a long time my parents couldn't afford going to Mexico So there was a huge disconnect like between me being six until like my adult life so like most of my life, and so I wasn't until I was 18 that I actually went back to Mexico and actually saw Mexico City through the eyes of my parents. And so like they were telling me like, oh, that's where I went to school or like that's a like the church that we used to go to or like this is the road that I used to take to go visit your mom when we were dating and stuff like that. And so like reliving that through their perspective and actually seeing like where your parents come from because like you hear all these stories of your parents' life, but because you're not close to that place or you're not close to your family, they're kind of just stories. And so for me, going back, it was actually conceptualized and I saw everything that my parents referred to, or I saw the way of life that they always referred to, like, oh, we used to go get water from the water truck a mile down the road kind of thing, right? But I relate to what she says because just being there and experiencing the holidays is a different experience. Like yeah, your parents make the most of it here in the States and they try to teach you your culture, but then you actually experience it in Mexico. And that's like something completely

0:31:31
different.

0:31:32
What about you, Elsa?

0:31:33
I mean, while I was listening to her interview, I was thinking about how she's right, you can attempt to show your children what your culture is like within the U.S., but they're never going to get the full message until they're actually there reliving what you used to live. I'm remembering a time when I was younger, one of my aunts tried to do like a plazada here in the U.S. to show us what it's like, and I don't know, like it was a good effort, but whatever message she was trying to convey did not get through to me. It was a little confusing. But anyways, this last December I had the privilege to go to visit my family in Mexico. My father's family is from Mexico City, and I got to spend a month there. And my dad has 13 siblings, so I got to... and they all live in the same area. So it's a town outside of Mexico City and it's called La Perla. So my whole family lives there and we were spoiled rotten. It was awesome. We visited in time for the holidays. We got to experience the Posadas and it was just breathtaking. There's no comparison to what it was like here versus there. Down the street there are people who are, you know, marching. There's a parade going on at all hours of the day. They had dancing there. It was an amazing experience. I wish I could go back.

0:32:58
I will hopefully go back this year.

0:33:00
So one thing before we move off from this topic that I'd like to touch a little bit on is this fact that our parents, yes, tried to instill their traditions from their native countries to us, but sometimes it didn't quite work out right. Like I also said with the Posada, the message kind of gets lost. And I think a big factor in that, that we don't always acknowledge is American culture itself, right? Our parents could have, you know, spend all day like, well, back home, we did this and this and this, but then we turn on the TV and we'd see the American idea of Christmas or New Year's. And I was like, well, you know, TV is saying this versus what my parents are saying. So I think American culture had a lot to do with us not getting the full experience. And it wasn't until we got away from American culture, when we got to visit our parents' home countries, that we're like, oh, this is what they were trying to show us.

0:33:55
Yeah, this is what they were trying to instill in me and keep, right, keep alive.

0:34:00
Right, so this is a very good segue into our next topic. We're going to start, this next clip we're going to hear from is from attorney Jocelyn Cortez, and she talks about how we inherit nostalgia for our parents' culture and home countries, even if we may not necessarily ever live there.

0:34:20
The main staple for us is the gallina in salsa, or it's like a roast chicken, which is usually made for Christmas or New Year's. It's made in a very savory tomato sauce. You take the meat and you put it in some, like a short French bread. You put pieces of tomato, and cucumber, and radish, and watercress. That's definitely a festive dish. That's something that my mom made. She would make pasteles, which are like empanadas in other countries filled with ground meat and some vegetables. I think more than the food, my parents were big on memories. I had a lot of information, perhaps because when I was a small child, I was the first of my cousins, too, to come from El Salvador. So I was, for a long time, probably the only child amongst a lot of immigrant adults. So I think I absorbed their nostalgia and what they left in their stories. So more than food, I think I was

0:35:29
nourished on that.

0:35:31
I mean, I really like at the end what she says is that, I absorbed this nostalgia with what was left in their stories and their food and stuff. I mean, I experienced that a lot growing up, right? Especially because I was the only child for about six years before my other sister was born. So I would hear my mom's stories of what growing up with my grandfather was like and what El Salvador was like. And so for me at least, this nostalgia doesn't manifest more than when I watch soccer, right? When I watch El Tri play, all this nostalgia for these countries that I'm not technically from but kind of expresses themselves and manifests itself in me when I watch El Tri. Because when I'm watching El Tri, man, I am 100% Mexican. I cry with them, I celebrate with them, and I get angry with them. And that's how it manifests in me.

0:36:29
What about you, Monta?

0:36:30
Yeah, like same with you guys. We inherit this nostalgia from our parents and where they come from. And like I said, we hear all these stories of their childhood and if they moved here in their adult life and all the things they went through and stuff like that. But for me, it's always like, oh, it's different in Mexico, but I only know it's different in Mexico because of what my parents told me, right. And it's kind of like this, this idea, right, that like, Mexico is home, or like our parents country is like home, home, right? Like we may live here, we might be born here and have our entire lives here, but like, that's home, right? You don't feel at home until you go home, that kind of stuff.

0:37:13
And then there's this idea that, especially for children of immigrants, no somos de aquí, no somos de allá, we're not from here, we're not from there. And the reason being for that is, you know, we grew up hearing the stories and the nostalgia from our parents from Mexico, but like you mentioned earlier, with your family in Mexico City, they were quick to point out, no, you have an American accent, no, you act like an American. And then when you're here in the States, we get that infamous question of where are you from, right? And so it's like, and I think this is a very unique experience for children of immigrants that we're not from here and we're not from there. We live in the in between, right? Like if we're Mexican Americans, we live in that space between Mexican and American, the hyphen, we live in the hyphen. And that is a very difficult topic. And it's something I personally struggled with in my younger years of like, what am I? I'm too brown to be an American, but I am too gringo to be a Mexican, right? And so it's a very difficult topic. And so that goes into, you know, children of immigrants, we not only inherit the nostalgia of these great, amazing things from our parents' home country, but we also inherit the trauma. And so before we dive into that a little more, we're going to hear from attorney Alex de Castro Verde, talking about how he has mixed feelings for Cuba because of his parents and what his parents went through while they lived in Cuba. No, I have mixed feelings with that. Knowing that

0:38:47
that, my dad fought in the Bay of Pigs, knowing that my dad devoted a big part of his life, almost his entire life towards, or in part, his entire life towards getting rid of Fidel and Raul Castro and having a free Cuba. I have mixed feelings in regards to do I want to go now? It's still, Raul Castro's got, he's still in charge, still a totalitarian country. They still absolutely oppress political dissidents. There's no freedom there. So on that one hand, I'd just rather wait for a free Cuba. On the other hand, I'm 46 years old, and I've waited all these years. And at some point, I would like to go. I'd like to see the country that my parents were born. So I'm torn. I go back and forth. If I go, I've tried to persuade my mom since my dad passed away, I'd like to go with my mom so she could be the historian and I know she's not going to be around forever, so I've tried to persuade her, perhaps it's best that we go and you could share your memories with me, but she feels strongly that she will not return until there's a free Cuba. She knows how much my dad sacrificed and she just couldn't live with herself to go and be any part of rewarding through her dollars the Cuban government that's in place right now.

0:40:15
So this clip is very powerful because the Castro Verde's own father fought in the Bay of Pigs and you know fighting for a free Cuba but there's this want and you can hear it in his voice like I want to know where my parents grew up. Like, I want to see that history. And, and, and he's on a timetable and he knows it because, you know, he's, he's in his forties, his mother is older, and he doesn't know how much time it is. But he, at the same time has to respect that, you know, his mother doesn't want to go because of what his father did. And it's just like, wow, like, how do you how do you balance that? How do you live with that idea of wanting to know where your parents live and then also respecting your parents' wishes because of what your father contributed for the freedom of that country that unfortunately doesn't have its freedom? I experienced that a little bit myself when I went to El Salvador when I was 13. I went when I was 13. I've never been back since, unfortunately, because the country is still facing turmoil because of the Civil War, right? So the Civil War in El Salvador started in about the 80s and ended in 92, 93, a couple years before I was born. And then, see, I grew up hearing my mom's story of El Salvador, these beautiful places, but unfortunately, the Civil War ruined it. And then once the Civil War was settled, unfortunately, gang activity filled in that violent, violent void that was left and the country hasn't been able to progress. But I remember going and I saw the beautiful mountains, the volcanoes that my mom spent telling me about. I saw all the little markets and stuff, but at the same time, I saw the destruction that was still left behind. And just to hear like the pain in my mom's voice of like, I can't really show you El Salvador that I grew up with because the Civil War destroyed it. It's no longer El Salvador I grew up with is no longer here, but I can show you what's left. And, and it's crazy because again, I inherited all the great things about El Salvador, but I also inherited that trauma. There's this whole generation of Salvadoranos my age who, yeah, we didn't live through the war We didn't go through the horrors of war but we might as well have because we've heard these stories so much We've heard the casualties that our families have suffered and now that I'm getting older I'm starting to realize that that first set of history I received was a censored version because my mom was sheltering me from the violence and now that I'm older there I'm starting to hear more of like no our family actually suffered casualties. You get frustrated, but you don't know who to be mad at. You don't know, what do I do with this anger that I've inherited from my mother? Because anytime she talks about El Salvador, she says it's a beautiful country, but then you can hear the anger in her voice of, it got ruined, it got destroyed because of the war. And then we couldn't rebuild because then the Mara came in. We can't rebuild. Our country is still not what it used to be when I was a child. And I can't show you El Salvador where I grew up in. And I mean, I feel that when Alex goes, you know, my mom doesn't want to go back until there's a free Cuba.

0:43:28
Yeah. And then later on we asked him, what does that entail? And he just said, like, no Castros, no communism, no socialism. And so it was one of those things that, you know, we have the luxury of like, we've been to our parents country. He's 46 years old, and he's never been to Cuba, because of the same reason, because his family refuses to go until, you know, until there's freedom in Cuba. And so like, he's in a special spot, because he has all this trauma, he has all this nostalgia, but he has never even stepped foot in that country.

0:43:56
Right.

0:43:56
But he's like 100% Cuban American, right? Like he always says it,

0:44:05
like I'm Cuban, like my family's Cuban, right? He's living in that again, he's living in that hyphen. He's Cuban American, but he's living in the hyphen. He's not Cuban, because he's never set foot on the island. But he's not also completely American, because he has this

0:44:18
nostalgia for Cuba. Elsa, any thoughts on this? Yeah, um, I realized that the ride this whole I've been referencing that trip to Mexico City. I was talking about it when, you know, just describing the happy moments. But, yeah, it was difficult even before I left. Back when I was still in the U.S. getting ready to go, I was kind of a little apprehensive because I'm visiting a lot of hardships. This is where my father had to experience things like poverty. He told me stories about, I mean, this is all really hard stuff to talk about, but there's poverty, there's child abuse, there's that whole machismo thing. Just problems that he's only mentioned in passing because I know it's hard for him to talk about it because I love my father so much. Having to go and visit the places where he had to overcome these issues, have to talk to some of the people who had part in these issues. I was obviously conflicted. But yeah, when I went there, I felt that sense of what we've been talking about this, this inherited trauma weighing down on me. I'm upset. I'm, I didn't live it personally, but I've lived through the aftermath, the aftermath because my father is a changed person because of the things that happened to him now

0:45:42
he's my father and

0:45:44
Yeah

0:45:46
And it's something that um, it's not just I'm like through this project we've been hearing so many stories that are similar to similar to yours or similar to mine where we um, It's like this. We're inheriting PTSD almost. Right.

0:46:03
But yeah.

0:46:04
Okay. So our last clip is a very interesting topic and something I really want to get into. It's this idea of how we adopt our American culture. Sure, we've been discussing how Latinos, first generations, we live in this hyphen, and we've been talking a lot about that first part of the hyphen, right? The Mexican, the Salvadorian, the Cuban part, but now we gotta look into the other side of that hyphen, the American side, right? And how do we as children of immigrants and first-generation people balance our Latinidad within our American heritage?

0:46:42
All right, so let's hear from former UNLV Gender, Queer, and Latinx Studies professor Anita Tijerina-Rivilla talk about Latinx people adopting American culture while also refusing to let go of our own identity.

0:46:58
You kind of piqued my interest when you mentioned Aztlultura, right, when we adopt American practices into our culture. But I kind of want to get your perspective on the criticism that we get, because, right, we adopt them, but we don't keep them how they're traditional we change them right so i'm thinking like the american dream is to own a car we took the car and we invented the lowrider we take um you know we take american food like hot dog but and then but we get criticized for it because we're we take so i kind of just want to get your perspective on why do we criticize or, you know,

0:47:40
I think that's what I was basically referring to when I said that Latinos, Latinx folk, have been kind of like a disappointment to the American assimilation product, right? because they wanted us to be like Italian folk or like, you know, I don't know, Irish folk who maybe they had some practices, maybe they still liked spaghetti, but they became Americans, right? And that was basically what all these white folk were being told, like if you want to be a real American, you can't be an Irish American, you can't be a German American, you can't be even a Jewish American, like you have to be an American. And some white folk have resisted that, but most of them didn't. Most of them are very proud and committed to that because to be a quote, good American, socially constructed good American, you have to reject your ethnic, you know, cultural practices. And so they, there are, but there are always for them, they compartmentalize it too. You might have like an Irish festival This is the one time you get to you know, be remember that you have Irish ancestry But overwhelmingly it can't be your primary identity

0:49:02
Right, so we have left like the juiciest one for last. I mean, there's a lot to unpack in this one I like to start by this idea that we get criticized for not being good immigrants by not assimilating. The examples that I asked in the question or in the clip that you heard was like the

0:49:24
lowrider.

0:49:25
It's the American dream to own a car, but it has to stay stock. Don't you dare put rims on it. Don't you dare lower it. Don't you dare pinstripe it because then it gets criminalized, right? There's a history in our cities of low riders being criminalized. You know, they would measure the body of your car and it had to be above a certain height or you know what, your car's illegal, you can't ride it. This idea of us taking American foods and changing them, they just can't be, you know, it can't just be a hot dog. No, that's a Tex-Mex hot dog that you're eating, right? They had to throw a label on it. And so, I mean, I, this is a very difficult thing where we're always balancing. I want to be American, but I want to have my Latina. I don't want to give up my Latina and we shouldn't have

0:50:16
to. Yeah. And how she talks about how to be a good American, being ethnic can't be your primary identity. You have to be American and then you can remember, oh, I'm also Latina, I'm also Irish, I'm also Jewish, that kind of stuff, right? So this idea that your primary identity has to be American or you're not a good American. And so she talks about all of this and it goes back to the 4th of July, how we started the episode, how this 4th of July, I was really conflicted, right? I'm really conflicted on how I feel about the 4th of July. Like you said, did I want to celebrate it? Not really. I just wanted to watch fireworks. I wasn't proud of being American yesterday. It was just kind of like, oh, another 4th of July, right? But the only times that I'm actually excited for to be American is when something good happens in legislature or when something good happens because the community went out and did something. Or when the women's soccer team gets to the final of the World Cup. Hey, what's up? That kind of stuff makes me feel American. But it's not like, she says, like it's not my primary identity. Before I say I'm American, if I ever say I'm American, I'm gonna say I'm Latina, my parents are Mexican, that kind of stuff, right?

0:51:27
Well, it's funny, because even then, like even when we want to say we're American, they don't let us, right? Going back to that infamous question of like, where you're from, if you answer, I'm from here, the wheels get, no, but really where you from where you from from where you from and like they? Mean like where's your family from like where did you guys immigrate from right? So there's there's almost no winning right? We like okay, you're being too ethnic to be American fine. All right, I'll be American But then we get the no you're not from here though. Where are you? Where are you from? It's like okay? What do you want from me? You want me to tell you I'm Mexican? Okay, if that's what you want, fine, but let me be Mexican. Do you want me to be American? Fine, I'll be American, but don't ask me, no, where are you from?

0:52:11
I think a lot of people don't realize just how different the answers will be when we actually give them like the where we're from. Because depending on the person you're talking to, you could get a, oh, that's cool. Or you could get someone who's a little bit more like standoffish and not happy with your answer. So it's also this thing where it's like, I'm putting myself out there, not just feeling uncomfortable

0:52:34
but potentially feeling like unsafe.

0:52:37
Like, yeah, where's this gonna go?

0:52:37
Because I've had those situations as well.

0:52:39
And I know that my parents have had those situations, more so them than I because, because racism and whatever. Yeah, so I don't know, we get so much flack on it. It is a catch-22. And it's also, it sucks that we have to feel so defensive

0:52:54
because we were forced to feel that way. And she talked about that, like, you know, we make white people uncomfortable, right? And pointing things out like this is having to face American history, like having to face those wounds head on. And I feel like that's right now, like, the whole reason why there's so much turmoil in the United States because there's people that are like, okay, it's time to address the wound, right? It's time to actually clean it up and make sure that it heals, right? And a lot of people do not want to do that because it'll be accepting that this country isn't the perfect America that they always celebrate

0:53:31
on 4th of July.

0:53:32
It would have to mean admitting guilt.

0:53:35
Yeah. Like guilt. But then also, this is nothing new. I hate that we're having this discussion like okay It's 2019. We've been having this discussion for not just a decade but for like hundreds and centuries centuries centuries So the fact that some people are still coming up to us expecting some like I don't know some 101 course on why racism is bad. It's like no I expect more of y'all especially now that the internet exists, especially now that no Vegas is so diverse

0:54:04
If any like if you pay attention in US history class, you should be angry But even then yes history class is not always like super Yeah, and like the thing is like it's not just against Latinos It's against every minority in the United States and she addresses that right Anita does a great job of addressing that. It's not just like, oh, we're victims of this. Like, no, all minorities have been discriminated and preyed upon by the institution that is government. And so we see it more and more that now, because we have cell phones, because we have access to technology and social media, these things are more blunt, right? These discriminations, these instances of abuse of power are more blunt and they're in your face. And that's when people get uncomfortable and don't want to address it.

0:54:59
I wanted to comment on what she said, because when I heard this, I was just blown away. I mean, it was so powerful. And you're right, Monse, this does bring us back to yesterday, it being the 4th of July and feeling it's hard feeling pride for a country who's enjoying the fruits of today, but without acknowledging all the stuff that happened yesterday and before that. But yeah, when we're talking about loving our country and being patriotic, my approach has always been that because I love it so much, I'm so critical of it. I'm glad that she's doing this work through educating others. And because it's such a systematic issue, I feel like that's why we have awesome elementary school teachers who need to like talk about race in the classroom, because to dismantle, you know, things like institutionalized racism, we do have to be systematic, we have to talk to kids while they're young, talk to them truthfully, and then keep that conversation

0:55:56
going through their education system, which is why we need more teachers of color everywhere. Right. And so this is a couple more things I want to touch on before we wrap this episode up. This is my last question for you guys. You know, we've been discussing this idea of living in the hyphen between Mexican and American, Cuban and American, what have you. How do you personally live in that hyphen, right? And I'll start off by saying, myself, this was something I struggled with growing up. Like, being, feeling like I'm not from here, I'm not from there, how do I live in this space? And as I got older, I realized that you know what, there is no roadmap, there is no guide of how to be American. And so that, and that seems devastating at first, like, dang, I have to figure this out by myself. And then it goes, wait, that means I can do whatever I want with it. So that, to me was taking the best of American culture and taking the best of Salvadorian culture and taking the best of Mexican culture and blending it all together into this identity that I am like happy with, right? And so I'm going to throw that question out to you. I'll start off with you. Monsa, how do you feel like you've personally found a way to live in that hyphen? I feel like the

0:57:06
same methods as with you taking the best of both cultures and adapting them and making them my own. Another one, at least for me, is like my name. Any setting, it has to be Monse. Like it can't be like my full name, it can't be like a white, Americanized Monse, right? It has to be Monse, like at least in the pronunciation of my name, it has to be Monse, and that's how I use that identity or create my own identity. Like, okay, I can be in any kind of situation but once it always stays and like for me like that's it

0:57:42
Yeah, um, I remember this used to be a big issue with me when I was when I was younger You know went from Colorado where I was the Mexican kid to here Everyone's Mexican but even then it was like I don't have some as much in common as you would think and then that led into because I'm so self-critical, that led into a lot of feelings of guilt. And that word, like whitewashing, was, oh God, I hated it because I thought like, oh my God, I'm so whitewashed. I'm not representing my culture. I'm letting my parents down. Like, it was a lot for a teenager, but I experienced that throughout most of my life. And yeah, it manifests itself in a lot of ways, feeling like you need to out, like almost like out Mexican in some situations, but out American in others. There is a lot of, it is a comfort to know that now that everyone is a little bit more aware of the issues that we're facing, I can put, like let my guard down. I don't have to worry about outperforming anyone. I can just live authentically like the things I do. So yeah, Mexican food is like the biggest thing for me, but and also with American stuff, like, I don't know, I'm trying to think if there's anything, especially American that I like, I think at this point, I just like what I like. But I do try to highlight my Mexican heritage, because, you know, I'm a new generation, and I want to preserve that.

0:59:14
Alright, well, guys, this was a great conversation. I loved it. There was so much to unpack. Listeners, I'd like to thank you guys for joining in on this conversation. Any last thoughts?

0:59:27
Just overall, our heritage is our heritage, and we need to keep it alive.

0:59:31
Right. Elsa?

0:59:33
Live authentically and be happy that we have all this cool stuff on top of just being from the US.

0:59:40
Yeah, and you know what guys, I can't add anything else to that. So all I'm going to say is gracias for listening. This has been

0:59:48
Latinx Voices Unveiled. conducted by research assistants at the Oral History Research Center. To hear these interviews in full, contact UNLV Special Collections and Archives at 702-895-2234. Special thanks to Yoni Kessler for our theme music, and to performing musicians Ricardo Arana, Tasos Faltecas, Marshall Peterson, and Spencer Pfeiffer. Audio engineering by Ron George.

1:00:27
Production Engineering by Kevin Kroll. Production Engineering by Kevin Kroll.

1:00:30
This podcast is a production of KUNV Radio and the UNLV Rebel Media Group.

Transcribed with Cockatoo